Film scores for study


 
     

Re: Film scores for study

by Alex Beard on Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:15pm

Hello everyone!
  I was recently asked what are some good film scores to study, so I thought I would post everything here so everyone can benefit from it. Smile This post is primarily for musicians and filmmakers, but of course film music enthusiasts and hobbyists might enjoy it as well!
  The scores listed are sorted by genre, and I’ve given a brief description of why I think these scores are worth study.

  This is kind of a companion score to the “Favorite film scores?” thread:

  http://www.christianfilmmakers.org/forums/viewthread/3218/

  Except, that thread is exclusively a “favorite scores to listen to on their own” thread, and this is a reference of scores that I consider to be truly great and worth study, whether they fall into my personal favorites list or not. The idea with this thread is to list films that have especially effective scores from which we all can learn, and to list scores that are particularly inventive on a musical level and not your “average movie score.”
  And note, there are spoilers! If you haven’t seen these films, I’m sorry if I ruin anything for you ... but it’s your choice to read! Razz


ACTION:

    Air Force One (Jerry Goldsmith and Joel McNeely): An exhilarating listen, and incredible with the film! The hijacking sequence is one of the pinnacle achievements in film scoring, in my opinion. It’s incredible how precisely the score matches the action on screen. Excellent orchestration, and these guys wonderfully captured the “American” sound. The main title and end credits make me want to stand up and say the pledge of allegiance every time I hear it!

    Eagle Eye (Brian Tyler): I can’t imagine the movie’s pacing and forward motion being anything close to what it was without Tyler’s score. He was dead on the mark every single moment of the film. I haven’t heard the score on its own, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it wasn’t very coherent or enjoyable. In the film, though, it made a world of difference. His action cues lined up very well, and in the more dramatic moments, he nailed it in terms of emotion and implication (for instance, someone says a line, and a moment later, there’s a deep, quiet drum hit as it sinks in). Extremely well-scored.


ADVENTURE:

    The Incredibles (Michael Giacchino): If any words can describe this score, it would be, “WOW!” Like the film, this score is an incredible (haha Wink) amount of fun. The orchestration is brilliant, and the sheer energy of everything is impressive. It has a jazzy, “spy-movie” feel to it (like the James Bond) films, but while not taking itself to seriously, it is pure brilliance from beginning to end.

    Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark (John Williams): This score is a classic. Even children today, whose parents were their age when the film came out, know Indy’s iconic theme! In this core, Williams simultaneously captures the sheer fun and adventure of the film, and the power of the Ark of the Covenant through God. There are several themes in this score, most notably Indy’s, the Ark’s, the medallion’s, Marion’s, and the Nazis’. Something interesting about all of the Indiana Jones movies is how sparingly his theme is actually used. It’s only used about half a dozen times in each film, except the fourth (it’s used more, perhaps a little less effectively in places). Take note of how Williams develops the Ark’s theme as the film progresses. The first few notes are introduced when the government agents recruit Indy and he shows them a picture of the Ark. The medallion’s theme is introduced when Marion pulls it out and the audience sees it for the first time. The ark’s theme is again heard in part in the map room, and later when Indy and Sallah carry it through the chamber. A kind of dark march using both the Ark’s theme and the medallion’s theme is heard when the Nazis march with the Ark through the desert with Indy in disguise, and later when the Nazis open it at the climax of the film. But, what’s interesting is that Williams only presents the Ark’s theme in its entirety at the climax of the film! Every other time, it’s just snippets, fragments, and hints, as the audience is getting hints as to the nature and power of the Ark and God ... pure brilliance Smile

    The Mummy Returns (Alan Silvestri): This is perhaps the only score I know of that can rival Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark in terms of fun and adventure. In fact, for some reason, whenever I play Rick’s theme for people, they nearly always think it’s from Indiana Jones! The two things have next to nothing in common musically except they’re primarily brassy and they’re a lot of fun. They make you want to go save the world or something. Smile Silvestri’s score is huge and brilliantly orchestrated. The action music especially is intense and brilliant. Something else impressive about this film is the sheer amount of music! 110 minutes of music in a 130-minute film, minus a lame 5-minute song in the credits. And, not a single cue is bad or boring. The whole score is awesome in the film and on its own! (Van Helsing and Beowulf are what I call “sister scores,” because they’re very similar in style, even having similar action passages, but in my opinion, they don’t top The Mummy Returns.)

    Pirates of the Caribbean trilogy (Hans Zimmer & co.): These are enormously controversial scores, and with good reason. Hans Zimmer already had an army of critics against him, and his approach to scoring this trilogy riled them up even more. I mean, each score has at least half a dozen composers (with Zimmer getting credit), another half dozen orchestrators, and at least a couple conductors. Add to that that he scored the films as if each group of characters (pirates, British army, main characters, etc.) were motorcycle gangs (he said this himself), and it’s easy to understand why many might be outraged at these scores. I mean, for films that apparently take place in the 1700s or so, having a hardcore rock-ish score (electric guitars, pounding rock drums, and everything) that tops even Gladiator in terms of testosterone and steroids seems to be an absolutely ridiculous approach. The controversy really is about this style breaking with the precedent adventure scores (such as those by Korngold, Steiner, and later Williams, and even Debney and Silvestri). Listen to John Debney’s score to Cutthroat Island (which is an incredible score) and then Zimmer’s Pirates scores, and it’s obvious why people get riled up over this. But, he produced what are arguably some very enjoyable and highly impressive (and undeniably very well-mixed and mastered) scores that are thrilling to listen to on their own. Audiences also largely seem to accept this odd approach without question.


“COMIC BOOK” films:

    Batman (Danny Elfman): The score to this Tim Burton film is arguably one of his finest. It goes wonderfully with the film, which is dark and yet still wacky. Elfman’s music is as well. You can hear some Bernard Herrmann influences in parts (Elfman loves Herrmann’s music!). Burton and Elfman had a fairly unpredictable approach to several scenes: a wacky waltz for the Joker when he shoots Carl Grisssom, and a reprise of that waltz during the final fight at the top of the cathedral. Interesting juxtaposition! But it works well. Burton and Elfman can do very creative things together ... as a team, they produce great stuff. Especially with weirdo actors like Michael Keaton, Jack Nicholson, and Johnny Depp. Smile

    The Dark Knight (Hans Zimmer and James Newton Howard): This score works wonders in the film, even though most of the score isn’t very engaging to listen to on its own. The film is dark and nitty-gritty, and the music is appropriately mostly dark and moody. Of course, there’s pounding action music when appropriate, and Zimmer bumps his already intense action music up to the next level at times. Interestingly enough, the music for the Joker in this film is very unconventional as well! His theme is only a single note, a scratchy, sustained D on a solo cello. It evolves in different scenes and in a different direction each time. But, at apparently odd times, there’s just this airy and scratchy note, and the audience knows that the Joker is lurking around. Zimmer said that he wanted the character to be free of any associations with what we might have with a “bad guy theme.”

    Superman (John Williams): Classic and brilliant, and many would call this their all-time favorite score. Along with Indiana Jones and Luke Skywalker, Superman has his own iconic, heroic theme. I don’t read comic books, but if I did, I can’t imagine reading the Superman comic books and hearing anything but this music. It’s perfect for the film. Perfect.

    Superman Returns (John Ottman): This is a companion study to Williams’ score to Superman. Listen to how another composer keeps Williams’ themes and draws from his original score, and yet still presents something original and interesting (similar to Don Davis and Jurassic Park 3). Ottman uses a similar but different palette (including the use of a choir), and hints at Williams’ love theme several times in reference to his own, new love theme.


DRAMA:

    August Rush (Mark Mancina): There are several themes, and they’re developed over the course of the film in a way that parallels August’s search for his parents. The music is literally a character in this film. One theme, apparently the “main theme,” is introduced airily in the beginning, the social worker whistles it (and it catches August’s attention), August plays a variation of it on guitar, and it’s used a few other times. Another of the themes is a 4-note repeated descent, which seems to represent August’s longing for his parents. There are a couple other themes, as well as the tune Wizard sings the night of August’s conception. And, at the end of the film, during August’s Rhapsody, all of the themes are presented beautifully, and his actual piece goes along with (or perhaps determines?) the action on screen. 

    Cast Away (Alan Silvestri): I’m not sure what genre of film this actually is, so I just put it under drama. The most intriguing thing about this score is actually when there’s music, and when there isn’t! In this full-length feature film, the score is a grand total of 17 minutes long. There is no music for the entire time Chuck is on the island, and this greatly amplifies the loneliness he feels. There’s only music during the “normal” beginning and end of the film. The score itself is comprised only of a single sad and beautiful theme.

    E.T.-Extra Terrestrial (John Williams): This is also a sci-fi film, but I categorized it as drama because of the familial nature of the film. This score is one of the scores from what I consider to be John Williams’ peak years (1977 to mid 1980s). The music at the beginning of the film is almost religious-sounding as E.T. is left behind, and the music goes from eerie to curious to warm as E.T. and Elliot’s friendship grows. I consider the bicycle chase towards the end of the film to be another of the pinnacle sequences in film, and Williams’ music is phenomenal.


FANTASY:

    Edward Scissorhands (Danny Elfman): This is another of Elfman’s finest scores. Elfman delivered a very fairy-tailish kind of score to this peculiar film. This is another score that’s wonderful to listen to on its own, but it enhances the film enormously. The music to the scene when Kim dances in the ice shavings/snow is amazing! Another interesting decision that Elfman made was to score the hair cutting montage with gypsy music. It has nothing to do with anything, but he suggested it to Burton, and they went with it. It works very well, and the audience accepts it, but if you try to analyze it, it really makes no sense. Smile

    Hook (John Williams): This is a wonderfully magical score, and one of John Williams’ finest ever in my opinion. There are many, many memorable themes in this score (perhaps more than any other single film, including Star Wars). This score has some huge swells for a full orchestra and chorus, and has some equally powerful quiet moments with solo piano or violin. This score is fun and magical both in the film and on its own. Absolutely amazing music. 

    Lord of the Rings trilogy (Howard Shore): I could write pages and pages and not do these scores justice. Just like when you watch the film, you can see how much labor and love must have been put into making EVERYTHING, so one can hear when listening to the music how much Shore slaved over every single note, phrase, and orchestration. Every last minor detail seems to have been thought out, planned for, and executed masterfully. The thoroughness of the scoring and orchestration is astounding. These movies are long, but there’s an enormous amount of music in these films, even adjusting the length proportionately. Pay special attention to how Shore uses dynamics in these scores. His themes and harmony often seem simple (and often are), but listen to how he presents them ... so many dynamic curves, swells, waves, builds, breaths, and flexes. My only complaint is that the percussion is often mixed way down, especially in Return of the King ...


HORROR/THRILLER:

    The Sixth Sense (James Newton Howard): Amazingly well-written and well-orchestrated score. Like the film, it’s mostly quiet, restrained, and tense, with a few “stingers” that jump out here and there. The cue at the very end of the film, when Malcolm realizes he’s dead, is another example of a scene I consider one of the pinnacles of filmmaking, and the music plays a huge role. This music is very engaging to listen to on its own and works wonders in the film.

    Vertigo (Bernard Herrmann): This is, in my opinion, Herrmann’s best score, both for its effectiveness in the film and its musicality. The uneasy harmonies of the arpeggios in the opening sequence, and the subsequent hideous punctuating chords perfectly convey Ferguson’s fear. I think the quiet and eerie ostinato with moving parallel major thirds unsettles the audience more than Madeleine’s strangeness. The 4-note descending theme is perfect for their mutual love, and he presents it softly on muted strings in some scenes, and in others with the full orchestra playing loudly (you’ll have to watch to find out which ones Wink). Herrmann was arguably the best orchestrator to ever work in Hollywood. There’s a certain color and vibrancy to his music that is often lacking in others’.


MUSICALS:

    Aladdin (Alan Menken): Alan Menken’s scores from the late 80s through early/mid 90s are consistently high quality and impressive. This particular score is one of the more energetic scores (due to elements like a flying carpet, a hyper genie performed by Robin Williams, and more). It’s to this score to that classic song “A Whole New World” belongs.

    The Little Mermaid (Alan Menken): This is less of a magical and adventurous score like Aladdin, and more of a intimate and personal score about the young Ariel. And, like Aladdin, the themes are wonderful and memorable, and the score itself is very colorful and enjoyable.

    The Nightmare Before Christmas (Danny Elfman): This score is, well, uh, unique. Smile Like the film, it’s not much at all like what you’d expect after a history of stuff like Bambi, 101 Dalmations, Pocahontas. As for as animation goes, it’s not at all like the Rudolph movie many love. It’s wacky, weird, off the wall, strange, and fun! Elfman’s music goes with the film perfectly. (He also actually performed the songs that Jack sings, in case you’re interested in trivia.) Elfman perfectly fused stereotypical macabre, dark, creepy “Halloween music” and stereotypical magical, beautiful “Christmas music,” although he leans towards the former (as does the film, since it’s told from a Halloween village’s perspective). The songs are creative, inventive, peculiar, and often absurd and hilarious, and of course lots of fun.


PERIOD FILMS:

    Ben-Hur (Miklos Rosza): This score is half a century old, but like the film, it’s still enjoyable and definitely worth some study. There’s a ton of themes, and Rosza uses them very effectively. Numerous famous scores from the last half century have been at least partly based on this, not the least of which was John Williams’ Star Wars! One interesting thing about this score from a musical standpoint is that it is almost completely modal, rather than what most would call “tonal” or “normal.”

    Braveheart (James Horner): Wonderful score, and highly enjoyable to listen to on its own. But, I mention this score because Horner managed to use a modern orchestra and still achieve a largely “primitive” sounding score. When listening to the score, it’s enjoyable and somewhat modern-sounding. But in the film, it sounds raw and primitive, fitting in wonderfully with the medieval-esque story.

    Gladiator (Hans Zimmer and Lisa Gerrard): This is a controversial score. Although the film obviously takes place in ancient Rome, Zimmer’s score is a huge modern orchestra, “enhanced” electronically, with the occasional “ethnic”-sounding instruments. He obviously didn’t even try to go for an authentic “Roman” feel to the score. Not even a Hollywood “fake” ethnic score (Horner did this for Braveheart and The Mask of Zorro, Goldsmith and Silvestri did this for the Mummy films, etc.). But, it’s an exhilarating score to listen to, and audiences seem to accept the unconventional (some might call it stubborn or ignorant) musical approach to the film.

    The Passion of the Christ (John Debney): Along with the film, this score was immediately labeled as “controversial,” and some fierce hatred and opposition arose towards it. I don’t know why. I think the score works extremely well. There are (at least) a couple things notable about this score. First, Debney uses a choir, and the lyrics are in the original Hebrew and Aramaic. (We discussed this in the “film scores with hidden messages” thread.) Secondly, he brought in numerous “ethnic” (i.e. ancient and/or foreign) instruments from around the world, such as the duduk, erhu, bamboo flute, oud, etc. He also uses an electric cello and solo vocals in some places. The score itself definitely doesn’t have a “contemporary film score” kind of feel, and like Braveheart, it sounds primitive (and in this case, barbaric in places). But, it’s not so “primitive,” foreign, or ancient-sounding that it causes an audience to lose interest. On the contrary, much of the score is moving and powerful.

    The Three Muskateers (Michael Kamen): Along with Williams’ score to Schindler’s List, this is probably the most “classical”-sounding score I’ve ever heard. You can listen to the score from start to finish as if it was a concert piece, and it lacks little to nothing. It’s adventurous and modern, but Kamen still maintains the “old-fashioned” sound somehow. The opening cue is like a requiem, some of the action pieces have dance rhythms from the time yet a contemporary action feel. And, of course, there’s a theme song performed by Brian Adams. Smile


SCI-FI:

    Independence Day (David Arnold): A huge, high-powered score from Arnold for an equally huge film. The music is fun in parts (the canyon chase) and heartbreaking in others (as the First Lady dies). The music gives the mysterious ships their powerful and threatening persona immediately, before a shot is ever fired.

    The Matrix (Don Davis): This score is NOT your typical film music. There’s music in this film that wouldn’t work with any other film. Davis pulled out all the stops and let loose an incredible, unique score. He blends the “traditional film score” sound with sounds heard in crazy, contemporary concert music (he references Witold Lutoslawski and John Adams in the commentary), and techno of all things. There are also very few recurring themes in this film; there’s the “bullet time” theme (2 chords fading in and out of each other), a sparingly-used love theme for Neo and Trinity (which is developed more in the sequels), and 4-note threatening idea for the agents. Like the film, this score has elements of sci-fi and action, while simultaneously carrying religious undertones that are really brought to the forefront in the film’s climax. He created a truly unique sound for this film.

    Star Trek: The Motion Picture (Jerry Goldsmith): I consider this to be one of the finest film scores in movie history. Many consider the film itself to be rather dull and lifeless, but the music is engaging on so many levels I can’t fit it here. The orchestration was brilliantly done. Goldsmith introduces a new heroic theme for the crew and franchise, which he blends perfectly with Alexander Courage’s original fanfare. Everyone now knows this as “the Star Trek theme” (singular). The other primary theme is for Lieutenant Ilia, which is shared with V’Ger for obvious reasons. But, he presents Ilia’s version of it with feminine grace and beauty, and V’Ger’s version of it with a dark and threatening orchestration. He also invented a new instrument for this score, “the blaster beam,” which is hollowed-out shell casings with a motor inside. This is a metallic, mechanical-sounding instrument that he uses for V’Ger. In the scenes when Ilia and V’Ger share the same body, his score tells the audience exactly which character is dominant. It’s subtle yet obvious, quiet yet clear, and completely brilliant. This is an incredibly effective score. It’s even more impressive when you consider that Goldsmith was scoring more or less in John Williams’ shadow (the original Star Wars was in 1977, and this film was released at the end of 1979). He came up with a great sci-fi score, and his own heroic theme, that bears little no resemblance to Williams’ score!

    Star Wars 4: A New Hope (John Williams): It was tough decision between categorizing this score as “sci-fi” or “adventure,” but I put it here just for convenience and not creating a “space opera” section as George Lucas might prefer. Smile This score is one of the landmarks, perhaps the greatest, in film history. In a time when the “classical” film score was dying, Williams pretty much single-handedly saved it, and brought it back, with this score. He’s been under fire for over 30 years now by critics, especially academics, for having “ripped off” so many classical composers for this score, but that was what Lucas hired him to do. And, Williams delivered not just a boring ripoff score, but a fun, adventurous, and compelling score that is still incredibly famous today! If you’re into “classical” music, you’ll get a kick out of studying his influences to this film (which also include previous film music, such as the aforementioned Ben-Hur). Either way, though, it’s highly enjoyable on its own, and without this score, the first Star Wars film would have died a quiet death a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away ...

    Star Wars 5: The Empire Strikes Back (John Williams): Williams’ score to this sequel is much more original than his score to the original. This score is bigger, lengthier, and more operatic. He introduces several new themes (most notably “The Imperial March/Darth Vader’s Theme,” but also “Yoda’s Theme” and the love theme for Han and Leia). With the success of the first film, and the first score, behind him, he was able to get more creative and do more with this score.

    Star Wars 6: Return of the Jedi (John Williams): Williams yet again adds more themes to the mix while simultaneously using the dozens of others he’s already written in this score. The final battle has about 30 straight minutes (!) of music! He references several cues from the previous two films and yet again provides excellent new material. The actual running length of the score is actually longer than the film! He rescored a couple scenes, and he also scored a couple scenes that were cut from the film.

 
WHEW! I think that’s the lengthiest post I’ve ever made on any forum in my entire life. But, I hope that you all find it useful and interesting! If anyone else has any scores they think are worth study, please feel free to share them (and of course why you think they are)!

Alex Beard, composer
http://www.composeralex.com
http://www.myspace.com/composeralex

[ Edited: Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:36pm by Alex Beard ]
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Re: Film scores for study

by Tom Swift on Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:42am

Thanks for posting this, Alex.  I wish I had more time to read through this today.  Just skimmed it.  What a wealth of great music to study.  Some awesome themes and I’m so glad to see my favorites from the 80s make your picks.  Thanks so much for adding your insight to this discussion.

I’m curious as to what you think of the method of music used for the adventure film Sky Captain.  It came across as having one of those fun like adventure themes—new and yet familiar.

I also noticed for certain period films like A Knight’s Tale (I haven’t seen it so I can only go by what I’ve heard) they’ve been using contemporary music.  It also seems that they did this a lot for the music to the film Moulan Rouge (Which I’ve not seen for some obvious reasons) and I had a coworker who loved that score so much he played it for me as we drove to an assignment and I found the music to be brilliant, beautiful, and yet familiar.

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Re: Film scores for study

by Benjamin Dawson on Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:09pm

Alex Beard wrote:

But, what’s interesting is that Williams only presents the Ark’s theme in its entirety at the climax of the film! Every other time, it’s just snippets, fragments, and hints, as the audience is getting hints as to the nature and power of the Ark and God ... pure brilliance Smile

He also did this in E.T. The youth orchestra I play in performed selections from the film, and the section titled “E.T. and Eliott” begins with a fifth, although it’s a minor chord, much like the main theme begins with a fifth. I wouldn’t have picked up on it, but looking back he lays down pieces of the theme as he goes along, until he gets to the “Over the Moon” where the theme comes in full force.

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Re: Film scores for study

by Tom Swift on Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:45pm

Great stuff in here.  Finally read it all.  Well worth a read and all the great info included.  Thanks again, Alex

Blessings,
Tom

*Edit—

I was also thinking to myself about the theme to Die Hard - the John McTiernan Bruce Willis film and thought that was a great score for an action film.

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Re: Film scores for study

by Lydia Ashton on Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:18pm

Thanks for this Alex! I will print this one and keep it handy so that when I look for new CDs I can get some of these.

~ Lydia

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Re: Film scores for study

by Daniel Casson on Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:23pm

Alex Beard wrote:

PERIOD FILMS:

    Ben-Hur (Miklos Rosza): This score is half a century old, but like the film, it’s still enjoyable and definitely worth some study. There’s a ton of themes, and Rosza uses them very effectively. Numerous famous scores from the last half century have been at least partly based on this, not the least of which was John Williams’ Star Wars! One interesting thing about this score from a musical standpoint is that it is almost completely modal, rather than what most would call “tonal” or “normal.”

I think it would also be fair to mention Gustav Holst’s “The Planets” as heavy inspiration for both Williams and Rosza (Not to mention numerous other film composers.)  Kind of off topic I know, but these scores (Including the later mentioned “Gladiator”) always remind me of this orchestral suite by Holst, particularly the first movement Mars, Bringer Of War

Really worth the listen!

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Re: Film scores for study

by Alex Beard on Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:45pm

Yeah, lots of composers base their stuff on lots of other composers’ work to varying degrees. I mean, everyone’s style, approach, and even taste are shaped by everything they’ve been exposed to, and whenever you hear a piece or a see a film, it affects you, and consequently, your work. You can’t just “ignore” it. You can make a conscience decision to not write something that sounds like a piece you hate, or to intentionally “rip off” a piece you love, but it’s still there in your head.

Anyway, yeah, Holst is one of the composers film composers like to imitate. Especially “Mars,” but also “Jupiter” (listen to the middle section with the lush, beautiful strings, and then listen to the love theme to Braveheart). But, the various “classical” influences of composers is an entirely different topic on its own. I posted some film scores for study because of their effectiveness in the film and/or their musicality. Maybe some of the classical/concert influences might be one aspect of this (such as Adams and Lutoslawski’s influence on Don Davis’ score to The Matrix, the numerous classical influences of John Williams’ score to Star Wars, Bach’s influence on Hans Zimmer’s music for Davy Jones and The Kraken in Pirates of the Caribbean 2, etc.)

Maybe I’ll start a thread on some obvious “classical”/concert influences on film music ... but that’s a big subject to tackle, and I’m scoring a full-length feature under a tight deadline. Then I have 2 more hot on its heels. We’ll see.

Alex Beard, composer
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Re: Film scores for study

by Eric Boellner on Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:47am

Hans Zimmer is my favorite composer.  His methods and music may be a bit unorthodox, but he is one of few composers whose music is prominent enough to be noticed without undue attention given to it, and yet subtle enough to not distract from the story.

On the Pirates bit, I believe, IIRC, Zimmer had learned classical composition and whatnot, but didn’t much like the stuffiness (my words, can’t remember his) that was in most of it.  He later was in a rock band, and that influenced a lot of his decisions for his compositions.

On the rock aspect of Pirates, that was actually a decision of Gore Verbinski’s (director).  He said he wanted to portray the pirates as the ‘rock stars’ of their era.  Also being a big rock fan (once in a hair band), Gore worked very closely with Hans on the score for Pirates.

I also loved the Gladiator score.  I thought it added much depth to the film.  I did notice that one of the main themes of the film was almost exactly the same as that of Pirates 2, only slowed by about half.  Obviously, Gladiator came first, so Zimmer was probably drawing on that for inspiration.

Hans Zimmer (along with John Williams) is one of the only composers whose work I can recognize before the credits roll.

Ironically, Kingdom of Heaven (which was scored by Zimmer’s protege, Harry Gregson-Williams) tried this same tactic, using an electric guitar with heavy metal/grunge distortion in the scene where the blond Norwegian guy fights despite having a crossbow bolt stuck in his throat.  It didn’t work, as it was completely out-of-place in the rest of the film’s rather subdued score (which some say is far better than Zimmer’s Gladiator score (I disagree, but that’s nothing new)).

In the scene in Pirates 3, where Davy Jones, Will, Jack, Elizabeth, Beckett and Barbossa all meet on the little island between their fleets, there is a sweeping aerial shot combined with a guitar bit reminiscent of the old Western showdown scores.  That piece was actually performed by Gore Verbinski, with Hans Zimmer directing him.

Though I think you already knew that, as I think you watched the special features of P3, didn’t you?  Wink

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Re: Film scores for study

by Jeremiah Warren on Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:45am

Same here, I can recognize a Williams or Zimmer pretty much all the time.

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Re: Film scores for study

by Alex Beard on Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:34pm

Eric Boellner wrote:

He later was in a rock band, and that influenced a lot of his decisions for his compositions.

On the rock aspect of Pirates, that was actually a decision of Gore Verbinski’s (director).  He said he wanted to portray the pirates as the ‘rock stars’ of their era.  Also being a big rock fan (once in a hair band), Gore worked very closely with Hans on the score for Pirates.

In the scene in Pirates 3, where Davy Jones, Will, Jack, Elizabeth, Beckett and Barbossa all meet on the little island between their fleets, there is a sweeping aerial shot combined with a guitar bit reminiscent of the old Western showdown scores.  That piece was actually performed by Gore Verbinski, with Hans Zimmer directing him.

Yeah, I shared that in a previous post about the film scoring process as an example of director/composer collaboration. Smile

http://www.christianfilmmakers.org/forums/viewthread/3118/

Eric Boellner wrote:

I also loved the Gladiator score.  I thought it added much depth to the film.  I did notice that one of the main themes of the film was almost exactly the same as that of Pirates 2, only slowed by about half.  Obviously, Gladiator came first, so Zimmer was probably drawing on that for inspiration.

Zimmer uses a lot of the same stuff over and over again. So does James Horner. At least, he used to ... I haven’t heard most of his new stuff in the past 5-ish years. With Zimmer, though, he’s established such a recognizable “Zimmer sound” in his scores (especially his “big” ones), he’s probably backed himself into a corner. Sure, he seems to enjoy it, but producers and directors make films and say “It would be great if this film had a Zimmer score!” (probably temp.ing the film with his music anyway)

With Horner, I think it’s because he’s a perfectionist. He knows when he’s had good ideas, and he uses them again in other projects, adjusting them accordingly and “improving” them as he sees fit.

To some extent, all composers (and all artists) do this. We all have a style, technique, approach, and general “palette” of what we like to use and do, and that we don’t like. But, with some it’s more blatant and recognizable.

One time a reporter asked Bernard Herrmann why two of his scores sounded the same. His response: “That’s because the same person wrote them, you fool!”

Or, from a filmmaking perspective. Consider George Lucas and having “1138” in each of his films, or Michael Bay and the couple shots he likes to have in all his films.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyx2dHAguuU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkUogaMTbW0 (A guy throws up at the end of this, just so you know.)

Those montages on YouTube are making fun of Michael Bay, but I’m not giving him any hate. I’m just pointing out how a filmmaker does things a certain way. And, sorry about the “surprise” at the end of the 2nd one!

But anyway, like I said, all artists have ways they like to do things. It’s just with Zimmer and Horner, it’s much more obvious and apparent than with most other composers. But I can tell you about how Williams, Goldsmith, Herrmann, Silvestri, Elfman, and others do it too, in their own ways ...

Eric Boellner wrote:

Hans Zimmer (along with John Williams) is one of the only composers whose work I can recognize before the credits roll.

Jeremiah Warren wrote:

Same here, I can recognize a Williams or Zimmer pretty much all the time.

Well watch more movies and listen to more scores! Razz

Goldsmith, Silvestri, and Herrmann all have very distinctive styles. The aforementioned Harry Gregson-Williams, Danny Elfman, John Powell, along with others not previously mentioned (such as Elmer Bernstein, Don Davis, Patrick Doyle, Tan Dun, Randy Edelman, Elliot Goldenthal, Michael Kamen, Mark Mancina, Thomas Newman, Basil Poledouris, and Trevor Rabin), all have their own distinctive style. Some composers write awesome music but are more the “blend in” type in my opinion (such as John Debney, James Newton-Howard, Mark McKenzie and William Ross). I don’t mean their music is generic (if there is such a thing), but more that they’re more like chameleons. (All film composers have to be, but Debney and Howard especially seems to be able to do just about anything and everything well!)

Eric Boellner wrote:

Ironically, Kingdom of Heaven (which was scored by Zimmer’s protege, Harry Gregson-Williams) tried this same tactic, using an electric guitar with heavy metal/grunge distortion in the scene where the blond Norwegian guy fights despite having a crossbow bolt stuck in his throat.  It didn’t work, as it was completely out-of-place in the rest of the film’s rather subdued score (which some say is far better than Zimmer’s Gladiator score (I disagree, but that’s nothing new)).

I don’t know that score, but I’m generally not a big fan of Harry Gregson-Williams’ music. That’s just my personal taste. He’s good at what he does. (I feel the same way about John Powell’s and Thomas Newman’s music.) They might be brilliant, but it’s not my cup of tea. They’ve all had their awesome moments, though. (Some of the cues in the Chronicles of Narnia films [especially “Return of the Lion,” WOW!], Armageddon, Chicken Run, Finding Nemo, A Series of Unfortunate Events, and Shrek are great!)

Eric Boellner wrote:

Though I think you already knew that, as I think you watched the special features of P3, didn’t you?  Wink

You’re kidding, right? A couple Christmases ago I asked for the 2-disc DVD just for “The Pirate Maestro” documentary. I bought The Dark Night 2-disc version for the same reason. That was a pretty good documentary, too.

Maybe I’ll start a thread about DVD sets (etc.?) where there are documentaries about composers, along with interviews and/or commentaries with them. That would take some time, though, and I’m scoring 3 full-length features back-to-back ... maybe if I fry my brain one day and need to veg for a while.

Alex Beard, composer
http://www.composeralex.com
http://www.myspace.com/composeralex

[ Edited: Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:38pm by Alex Beard ]
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Re: Film scores for study

by Ben Heckel on Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:56am

Some really good selections here, Alex.  I’ve been rather busy with college lately, so I haven’t been able to actively post as much (I wouldn’t be posting now if I wasn’t on a break!), but I have read some of your posts with great interest.  I’m a pretty big film score buff myself, and it’s cool to hear from someone as knowledgeable as yourself.  If I may, I’ve got a couple of other recommendations, and some comments.

I would soundly recommend Patton by Jerry Goldsmith.  It’s a very economic score (less than an hour of music for the epic film), but it’s pitch perfect.  A particular scene I’d point out is the one in the attack montage where the working soldiers ask Patton where he’s off to, and in his own characteristic way ( Wink ) tells them he’s off to Berlin to shoot Hitler, and they all cheer to the tune of the B theme of Patton’s march.  When I first saw the film, I was literally laughing in glee at how perfectly Goldsmith scored that moment.  I would consider one of the top 5 best scored moments I’ve seen on film.  THAT is what scoring is all about.  It takes a fair moment and just makes it absolutely classic.

Now, with regards to Zimmer *stretches, pops fingers* (we may need a separate thread for this Razz

In the case of POTC, I think that in film score fan circles, the anachronistic approach was compounded by the dissapointment that Silvestri had been replaced.  I know when I had seen that, I was really looking forward to what he’d come up with, as Silvestri has excelled at robust orchestral action music.

The music itself (in the first score; I’m only familiar with bits and pieces of the latter two) I actually quite enjoy—and in fact, I think it would be much better if they had left out a lot of the synthetic “enhancements” and rather focused on solidly orchestrating the music that was there.  As it is, I listen to a track like “Swords Crossed,” in the section where that bell is tolling, and the sounds make it seem like mediocre video game music.  If I ever get the time, I’d actually like to try tackling a reorchestrated suite of POTC music—the suites I’ve heard played orchestra-only sound like there was little to no attempt to adjust the orchestrations so as to sound like it was meant for a symphonic setting.  One of these days…

The Zimmer/Howard Batman scores are a complicated, frustrating case for me.  I didn’t expect or think they should have used an ‘89 sound for these films.  However, I feel like they went too far in the other direction, to the point where the music gets to sounding bland.  I hear good thematic ideas—the two-note call (my favorite rendition remains unreleased, the moment when Bruce hears the horn of the ship and runs to it in Begins), the-theme-that-I-thought-was-Batman’s-theme-but-I-guess-it’s-not-‘cause-Zimmer-said-they-didn’t-give-Batman-a-real-theme (LOL, the one you hear in the “I never said thank you,” “And you’ll never have to” exchange), the family/love theme, the Gotham/Dent theme…all of these are good ideas potentially.  However, the variations are often either non-existent or disappointing.  I WAS glad to hear the harmonic alterations to the call in TDK (“Like a Dog Chasing Cars” starts off very strongly until it falls back into the gliding over the Narrows to Ducard music from Begins).  The music often very chord/rhythm based, with minimal melodic/counterpoint work—it’s not that’s not there, but I get a very rigid vibe when I listen to the music (again, there was some improvement in TDK).  I’m not saying it has to be a Tchaikovsky symphony or something, but it gets a bit on the boring side.

I feel that even though the approach is much more grounded in these films, Nolan is still very much making Batman films, and they deserve more richness in the music.  The way the electronics are used with the orchestra, though sometimes successful, often end up giving a muddy, generic flavor IMO.  To hear a sound much closer to what I would have liked to hear for these films, check out the excellent score to Unbreakable by James Newton Howard.

I also feel like the music leans too heavily on the “This is a serious movie, don’t you know that?!” button.  While this is a more serious take on Batman, less cartoony, that doesn’t mean the filmmakers rejected the mythical, adventurous, humorous, or lighter elements of the character either.  Alfred still cracks jokes, Batman still drives a crazy car around, chasing and beating up bad guys in the theatrical fashion of a bat creature.  It’s all there, but the score is too busy telling us to take the films seriously to enhance the other facets. 

All that said, I find the scores to be exasperating guilty pleasures—I keep thinking I’d appreciate these scores so much more if they were just written for a regular crime drama/thriller.  But that’s not what these are.  They use elements of those kinds of films, but they aren’t just crime dramas/thrillers any more than they’re just superhero films.  They’ve got their own thing going on, and to my ears the music has too much tunnel vision about the tone of the films to really cover that interesting mesh satisfactorily.

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